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ETX-90/EC USER FEEDBACK
Last updated: 31 March 1999

This page is for actual user comments and information on the newly released Meade ETX-90/EC. Accessories and Feedback items appropriate to both the original ETX model and the new model are posted on other pages as appropriate.

ETX-90/EC Press Release (1/28/99)
ETX-90/EC Accessories (1/28/99)
Meade #497 Autostar Supplementary Software Downloads (3/31/99)
Polar Alignment Technique (3/10/99)



Subject:	 ETX Purchase and Finder
Sent:	Wednesday, March 31, 1999 8:42:28
From:	Christopher.Kovacs@Eng.Sun.COM (Christopher Kovacs)
First, great site. Lot's of information. It help me decide whether or
not to my an ETX.

I resently purchased an ETX 90/ec and Autostar from Roger Tuthill Inc. I
decided pay the extra $$$ to have the telescope pre-inspected due to
some of the comments from other Meade purchasers.

Like many ETX owners, the optics look very good. I still need to star
test and verify this fact. I have looked at "false star test", looking
at a distance porcelain power pole insulator with the sun reflecting off
it's surface, and it does look good.

The base plate is too flimsy for the deluxe tripod.  I find that the
scope can easily rock, back and forth, between the mounting screws.  I
plan to create a plate that can be attached between the base of the ETX
and tripod to reduce this flexing. I'll pass on the information if it
works good.

Even though I purchased the telescope pre-inspected, I did find the
following problem.  The finder had terrible ghosting.  I could not bring
the finder to a sharp focus.  The moon looked like a haze was surrounded
it.  I spoke with Tuthill, and they said ship it back and they would
have a look at it. Before doing so, I went ahead and took the finder
apart to see if I could find the problem.  My first thought was that the
prism was faulty or misaligned.  I took the prism off and held up the
objective and eyepiece to view if I saw any improvements; none was seen.
I then reversed the objective lens, the view was now sharp!  The
manufacture had mounted the objective lens backwards!  No one had
inspected, nor pre-focused the finder or else this would have been
caught.

I removed the retaining ring, reversed the objective, and assembled the
finder.  No more ghosting, it's now useable.

Perhaps someone can use this information.  All in all, I like the scope
and purchased it for the portablility and for visual oberserving which
is perfect a perfect match for this telescope.

	-chris
---------------	
		http://home.earthlink.net/~ckovacs/ccdimages/ccdimages.html
			(have a look)



Subject:	 Autostar software update
Sent:	Tuesday, March 30, 1999 14:19:26
From:	Sawyer.Mark@mayo.edu (Sawyer, Mark D., M.D.)
Great site.  Just got my ETX a few weeks ago.  RA motor died, sending it
in for repair.  Oh, well.  Asked if I could send in my Autostar for the
new & improved version in the same box; the tech said it'd be
mid-April at the earliest before the new software was done.
 
// mark



Subject:	 Re: ETX-90EC Sound Dampening
Sent:	Monday, March 29, 1999 19:38:58
From:	aerowood@home.com (Wayne Powell)
By the way, despite the negative comments below, I am so far impressed
and happy with my ETX-90EC - but then I haven't received my updated
AutoStar unit yet....

Well I have an update already regarding Sound Dampening.  I decided to
hold my breath and open 'er up to take a look inside. (Note: this most
likely voids the warranty.)  First thing that happened is the cover
plate (base & battery compartment) flipped out of my hand and snapped
one of the power leads off the pc board.  Tsk tsk.  Soldered in a power
connection (two 9 volt battery connectors) so I can safely disconnect
the battery pack in the future.

Going in, my thought was to use plastic wrap to protect the inards and
inject soft foam insulation (small expansion type), but it looked too
risky with all the exposed gears and such.  By using a plastic inlay
first, I figured I'd be able to remove the foam insert when required
(after it had hardened).  But I decided against this approach.  After
testing some premium rug underlay (the type with a solid rubber backing
attached to a synthetic "rug" batting) on the outside with a sound
meter, by holding pieces between the motor unit and the meter, I figured
I could cut the sound output at least in half.

After much cutting and fitting, being careful to avoid gears and trying
to keep loose fibres away from the gears (by putting the rubber side
towards the inside and towards the gears), I did a pretty good job.  But
I'm worried about the amount of loose fibre (despite carefully trying to
vacuum each cut piece) and I'll have to keep checking the fit to make
sure it's not interfering.  Some smaller pieces I mounted with silicone
sealant, which makes a nice removable adhesive.

All in all I wouldn't necessarily recommend this modification.  Apart
from voiding your warranty (I may need it, there seems like a lot of
slop in my gears), the dampening seems minimal (and there's almost no
clearance between the bottom of the battery compartment and the inards
so it was impossible to insulate the bottom).  All in all I'd say it's
dampened the sound of the Azimuth gear by about 50% - it's still going
to be mighty loud beside the lake this summer.

When first opened, I discovered that there was grease slopped on the
optic emmiter of the optic decoder.  I doubt it's serious so I left it
there, but since they greased up the decoder's timing wheel, I am
concerned that grease could get between the spokes and screw up the
timing.  Has anyone observed this?

The bottom plate and battery holder is thin plastic (compared to the
heavy metal plate of the original ETX).  No wonder people have tripod
mounting problems.  The mounting screws are securely mounted inside the
unit, so if the screws are sufficiently tight it shouldn't pose a
problem.  However I find the battery case bulges a bit, so it might be
hard to get a true flat union without using the rim of the base as a two
point suport for a tripod mount.

Beef: no ready tripod plate for my Manfrotto geared head, ARGHHH. 
Scopetronics has something, but being Canadian, the price is rather
hefty.  I will start with building my own mount using an oak wood strip
and the appropriate hardware.  I figure I can build it out a bit so
there's a place to a compass and level (if the screws are in the proper
alignment position, I haven't checked yet).

I also took out the main OTA (which was as easy as it was for the
original ETX, you need a Torx wrench) to check out the Alt gear arm (and
insulate for sound dampening).  Not much room left in there at all.  I
couldn't find the optical encoder, but then I didn't look too hard.  I
put some dampening pieces in there too, but it was impossible to get
behind the motor to the outerwall without doing a major disassembly so
the resulting sound dampening was very slight.

I had one problem, upon re-powering the motors for testing, the first
time, I found that the Alt gear speeds worked fine, but the Dec speed
seemed stuck in high gear mode.  I powered off and then on again and it
worked fine..... hope I didn't damage anything. Has anyone else had this
happen?

I must say I am impressed with the substantial look of the metal worm
gears and electronics Meade has packed in their new scope.

First light was the moon.  The tracking seems a little jerky, and
reversing directions causes a short delay while the gears re-set.  It
seems fine in that movements stop on a dime, and reverse movements seem
to pick up where they left off without too much jerking even though the
motors seem to speed up for a nic of time (to catch up the gear slop I
guess) before settling to the tracking speed.  But I need to do more
testing in this regards once I get a tripod mount rigged up. The hand
controller buttons are a little finicky.  Still much better than my old
MotoDec.   I can't wait to receive my Autostar.  I've ordered the
motorized Focus to try that out too.  I like the new Dec/Azi lock.  I
also like the thought that has gone into the controller interface,
including two Aux ports seems like a good idea.  Putting an adjustment
for the Sidereal tracking speed was also a great idea.

I've built a small ccd unit from a cheap colour "spy" camera, so I'll
let ya'all know how ti tested out after next weekend.

Wayne Powell aerowood@home.com




Sent:	Tuesday, March 30, 1999 19:26:06
From:	pthorpe@mediaone.net (Peter Thorpe)
Meade #497 Autostar Supplementary Software Downloads are now posted at:

http://www.meade.com/support/auto.html

BUT ... as of Tue night 9PM there is no way to get the downloads form PC
to Autostar, even with the cable.  What seems to be missing (but coming
soon) is the AUTO Client Application for Windows that appears to be
needed to make the upload to the Autostar.

The upload page looks good so far though ... check it out.

All Best Wishes,
Peter Thorpe

Mike here: The Download page also notes that a Java application version is coming that will support downloading the software from within your web browser from either a Macintosh or a PC. Many thanks to Meade for the dual-platform support!



Subject:	 etx/ec-Vertical movement problems
Sent:	Monday, March 29, 1999 17:25:44
From:	gregg_kyle@coulterpharm.com (Gregg W. Kyle)
I have had difficulty getting the Dec movement upwards when I engage the
knob on the side of the right fork.  The Dec motor always works downward
with gravity, but I frequently have trouble with movement upwards.
Repeated moving on the vertical axis, relocking and testing result in a
fix, but it can take up to ten times before it will move upwards.
Experimenting with the lock on the left side seems to help by loosening
the smooth knob that holds the dec numbers in place.  As a result I
loose this setting circle becuase it then shifts around.  No matter how
much experimentation, AI cannot get the dec movement upwards with a dew
cap on the etx..

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Gregg

Mike here: It sounds like either the DEC knob is overly tight (although why that would affect only one direction I can't say) or there is some obstruction preventing free movement. When you move the ETX in DEC by hand (not electronically, can you feel anything or does the scope move smoothly?

Added later:



Thanks for your response.  By the way I've been reading your site
diligently since June 98 and love it.  It is my favorite site.  Your
devotion to the ETX is commendable and it has helped me a great deal. 
Based on your site I was able to trade in my old ETX at Natural Wonders.
At this point I am not sure that is good or bad.  The new etx works
beautifully to guide you to objects that it used to take 15 -45 minutes
to find and in some cases several nights of viewings. The bad part is
that I'm on my third EC.  The first one burned out on the Dec motor
after one week (that one was really good too with great tracking,
optics, and no play in the RA and Dec.).  The second would not engage
the RA and turn on its' horizontal axis.  Now the third is getting loose
in the Dec.  It just will not engage tight enough to move upwards.

In answer to your questions, I don't feel any problems in moving the
scope by hand.  It moves quite freely without any encumbrance.  The
problem seems that the Dec locking knob just isn't in adjustment such
that it fully engages the dec motor.  It is the same problem I had with
the last scope with the RA.  The motor would run without any movement as
the RA lock knob  would not engage.  I think that when I loosen the left
fork knob that holds the dec setting circle in place, it simply removes
a tiny bit of friction that enables the poor engagement of the right
fork dec knob to allow upward movement of the OTA.

I really baby these scopes, so it is not abuse that is causing this
problem.  I had the old ETX for almost 9 months with almost weekly use
and on several trips in its hard case and never had any problems.

I don't want to return the scope a third time for a problem that can
easily be adjusted.  Several people have tinkered with these scopes now,
and may have an easy solution.  I called Meade, but the support person
did not really have a good understanding of the problem and simply
suggested that I send it to them. I'm sure they are coached to advise
people not to do mechanical repairs on the scope too.  At this point I
don't want to return the scope to Meade either.  I want to learn to
maintain and adjust the scope myself for the simple mechanical problems
- which I foresee for this scope to be frequent.

On another note.  Do you get out to Joshua tree or other areas in SoCal
for viewing.  So far, I've found the best area around SF is  Mt.
Tamalpais in Marin County - about a 45 minute drive from center city
where I live.  The only trouble is the park ranger kicked me out last
time for not having a camping permit.  When I offered to buy one, she
told me I was not a camper and did not qualify to stay.  On another
occasion, I got run off by some rancher for trespassing on his property
by pulling on to a dirt road twenty feet from the paved public roadway. 
Oh well - it is so hard to find good viewing areas!!

Thanks again for all the great info on your site.



Subject:	 ETX_observations
Sent:	Sunday, March 28, 1999 14:16:33
From:	gushue@users.buoy.com (Steve Gushue)
Great site!!! I've been reading the posts since late December when I
purchased a standard ETX. A week later and I saw the ad for the new ETX
90/EC. :(  I returned it 2 weeks later with no problems through the
Learning Smith.  I've since purchased the ETX-90/EC with no regrets.
Same optics but many more features.  I also purchased the Autostar a
month later. (As well as a 2x barlow and a 9.7mm eyepiece. Please don't
tell my wife ;).

As an amateur astronomer, I don't think I should be held to the
'professional' astronomer standards. It's fun to explore the sky but
there is not always the time to do it.  Living in the northeast also
presents astronomers with the challenge of finding clear skies, what
with air pollution and the worst light pollution in the country... 
Sometimes, I can only find a gap of 1 hour of clear sky for observations
due to weather. So I have no regrets about using the Autostar to show me
the way. AND the LOOK on my friends and neighbors faces when I show them
a galaxy or planet that they have NEVER seen before is worth the $150 I
paid to put it on their faces.  I'm looking forward to camping this
summer with the scope and enlightening other future astronomers, be they
professional or amateur.  That is what this scope is all about. No
novice wants to see you fumble around to find an object in the sky. And
a telescope is not useful if it is not USED for observation!

Now with all that said, I will admit that I was in such a rush to use
the ETX-90/EC that I did not read the manual.  I ran into every problem
mentioned in the other postings on this site, and the cause was ALWAYS
operator error. The new manual from www.meade.com is more intuitive but
actually contains all the information that was in the original Autostar
manual.  Setting up the scope to the proper HOME position is a must, but
once accomplished the scope should never run into the stops.  If one
happens to run into a stop then the scope should be turned off and then
re-trained before the next use.

I have found that the easiest way to orient the scope in alt/z mode is
to set it up by rotating the scope counter-clockwise until it hits the
hard stop. Now rotate the scope and tripod together clockwise until the
ON/OFF switch points to the WEST (this is VERY important). Finally,
rotate the optical tube ~50-60 degrees clockwise until it points NORTH
and lock it into the horizontal position (0 degrees DEC) as well as R.A
(True North).  You are now in the HOME position.  This is exactly the
same procedure as described by Meade but simpler IMHO. Of course, if the
stops are not standard from scope to scope, your mileage might vary.

Now to answer a recent question:

The software version of the Autostar can be found by changing from
Setup: to Statistics: ENTER: It now displays the amount of free memory
10.1K Char. free.  Use the scroll button and it now displays: Version
1.0c  A new version of the Autostar software is rumored to be coming out
this week. Make the cables...

Another interesting Autostar observation is that Meade has some new
telescopes up their sleeves.  Under the Telescope Model setting they
list: ETX-90/EC  DS-60 DS-70 DS-80 DS-90 DS-114 DS-127 ETX-125/EC and
ETX-70/EC as available choices.  Hmmm... Those of you thinking of buying
a ETX-90/EC might want to wait and see if the ETX-125/EC becomes a
reality.  Still I'm VERY happy with the ETX-90/EC.

I am experimenting with powering the telescope using Ni-Metal hydride
batteries.  They are expensive at $40/8 compared to $8/8 for throwaway
alkalines but they can be theoretically recharged 200 times.  They
should also last longer.  I'll let you know if they work or not soon.
First check indicates that they will work fine. These batteries are
available at Radio Shack w ith the specs of 1.2V @1200mA. The low
battery alarm in the Autostar does not sound with freshly charged
batteries installed.

Sorry this is such a long message, but I've been reading and learning
from your site for about 2 months. I figured it was my time to make a
positive contribution.  This is a GREAT telescope for the casual viewer
and it will teach you the sky when properly equipped.

Cheers,
Stephen E. Gushue

gushue@buoy.com
www.buoy.com/~gushue



Subject:	Autostar "bug?"
Sent:	Saturday, March 27, 1999 12:24:43
From:	LooneyRoo@aol.com
Occasionally, while I'm using my Autostar and when I use the GO TO
feature, it will pick the long route around the sky, even though I know
that it is going to hit a hard stop. Even when the image is within a few
arcseconds of the finder, the scope will want to go the other way. To
fix the problem, I move the scope past the object before hitting GO TO
and it winds up moving in the same direction as it was before, but it
stops in the correct place.

I was wondering if my Autostar had a bug, or if there was something that
I could do to correct the problem. It is not really a big deal, because
it only happens occasionally, but if there is a quick remedy for it, I'd
appreciate hearing how to fix it.

Also, when I use the "park scope" function, the scope slews to the
correct place and then makes minor movements to line up correctly. But
for some reason, the scope thinks it went too far, and picks up speed
again, as if it wants to do another RA rotation. This also is not a big
deal, because when it lines up and is in the middle of doing a minor
adjustments, all I have to do is hit an arrow key and it says that it is
parked.

Any information on how to fix these problems would be appreciated.
Thanks.

~Noah

Mike here: I don't know if these are some of the "bugs" in the current 1.0 release but a new release is supposed to be posted on Meade's web site at some point.



Subject:	Comments and question for etc 90/EC
Sent:	Saturday, March 27, 1999 5:56:10
From:	MeteorMik@aol.com
I took my new ETX 90/EC with the Autostar Computer out the last night
for the first attempt at using it. The first 2 hours were quite
frustrating as I couldn't seem to get the scope to slew anywhere close
to the easy align stars picked by the computer. In desperation, I tried
the original home position method stated in the paper manual and that
did it. From then on, all objects were in the finder and almost centered
in the eyepiece as well which was not bad for a quick job of positioning
the tripod and leveling it. The key was that I could not turn the scope
to the clockwise position all the way at first because it had been
turned the other way too much so it hit the hard stop early. In effect,
the new instructions for home postion online amount to the old ones when
you think about it. You have to go counterclockwise all the way first to
the stop in order to have the play to turn it clockwise and then 180
degrees counterclockwise as described in the online manual for the
Autostar.

My question is regarding the site setup. There are a number of people
writing in that their longitude and time were pre-set incorrectlly. I
need clarification. I live in New York and my computer is set for +74
longitude and +5 time. Is this correct or should it be - for both. I
changed it to negative last night but am still not sure if this is what
it should be? I'd appreciate if either Mike or someone commenting could
clarify this for me.

Thanks, Meteormik@aol.com.



Subject:	 AutoStar Version
Sent:	Friday, March 26, 1999 5:39:36
From:	lpthomas@krell.com (Larry P. Thomas WA0GWA)
I have been unable to get the AutoStar I bought to function properly
even after changing the Longitude and GMT from + to - . A previous post
indicated someone was using version 1.0c of the software.  I can't find
anyplace to observe what version I have except for the initial screen
which indicates [1.0] which to me implies the first release of the
software.  I also can not find any place to get an upgrade which I'd be
willing to install by making a serial cable.  I am assuming the software
as well as the database are in flashable memory inside the AutoStar.  My
only other course of action is to call the Nature Company and indicate
it does not work and get a replacement.

I am confident that the Calibration and training is good and the initial
two stars asked for in alignment are Sirius and a star in the northern
part of the sky I can't remember the name of.  These are very close to
being centered with no help from me.  When I slew to something like the
moon it is wrong ... very wrong.  After changing the polarities of the
Longitude and GMT it ask for totally different stars for alignment but
did initally locate the moon but as I worked with it it seemed to get
lost and started saying the moon was below horizon.  Personally i don't
know what else to try.

Any suggestions!

Thanks
Larry

----------------------------------------------------
 Larry P. Thomas    wa0gwa  voice : 1 913 888-0282
 Krell Technologies           fax : 1 913 782-9359
 8960 Bond                  pager : 1 816 989-HELP
 Overland Park, KS              www.krell.com 
 66214-1722    USA            lpthomas@krell.com



Subject:	MEADE UPDATE
Sent:	Wednesday, March 24, 1999 10:16:06
From:	HellMet1@aol.com
Just a quick note, Meade has updated it's FAQ regarding home position
for the ETX. This change occured since I checked it on friday the 19th.
Seems to be more understandable now.

Thanks,

Scott



Subject:	 Trade - in
Sent:	Wednesday, March 24, 1999 8:27:46
From:	JDeriso@Alphaind.com (Deriso, John)
I second Mike Wrobel's experience with Natural Wonders.  I swapped out
my old ETX for the newer ETX-90EC March 22, with no trouble at all.  My
old unit was in absolutely mint condition since I bought it last June,
still had the original packing.  I had misplaced the Allen wrenches, and
I had discarded the cardboard boxes for the 26mm EP and finder.  We
swapped out the wrenches, EP and finder to square things even.  Unlike
Wrobel, I succumbed (just got my IRS return) to buying the tripod and
the Astrostar controller.  Also, unlike Wrobel, I haven't had it out of
the box yet... c'mon, weekend!



Subject:	 ETX-90/EC
Sent:	Tuesday, March 23, 1999 12:29:37
From:	paul.luckas@au.pwcglobal.com
After weeks of reading the EC feedback section to the point of almost
being put off buying one, I finally purchased an EC and Autostar while
visiting here in the U.S. Firstly, let me offer my condolences to those
who genuinely purchased a bad one. To have experienced the
disappointment of legitimate QC problems is unforgiveable, despite the
fantastic store policies that seem to allow an unlimited number of
returns (not easy here in Australia where stocks non-existant). However,
to those who have reached for the keyboard to complain before bothering
to read a manual, or at least learn a little about astronomy and how a
telescope is supposed to function please be aware that you are reaching
a potential audience of inexperienced thousands who may be taking your
advice even though it is incorrect. For example, the gentleman who
complained about the rotating RA circle not being 'at least glued' to
the base. PLEASE ! (It is supposed to rotate !). While there have been a
genuine number of QC issues, there have also been a very, very high
proportion of user errors (my hat goes off to those who bother to
correct themselves in a follow-up email, but to be honest probably
shouldn't have been so quick to comment in the first place).

For the record, mine works flawlessly. Stops on both axes, no backlash
in the motors (in fact the Autostar has backlash compensation built in),
and quality of product that in my opinion is well above the actual price
when you consider the functionality of similar systems. As far as the
autostar is concerned, provided you can read, the unit aligns and slews
exactly as it should and is a remarkable product for its price. I'm no
fan of Meade by any stretch, but I'm more concerned about the
unsolicited bad advice that seems to be thrown about the internet
without so much as a single thought to those who may be influenced by
what is said.

As a final word of advice to those thinking of buying, I attribute my
purchase success to having my unit checked out by an authorised store,
and by someone who knows about telescopes BEFORE purchasing it. In my
case Oceanside Photo and Telescope.

Clear skies, and happy slewing....

PL
(Australia)



Subject:	 Autostar:
Sent:	Monday, March 22, 1999 18:52:35
From:	astrobee@worldnet.att.net (Boris Ortiz)
Still the best site for ETX info, thanks to all your great effort.
Purchased a link cable for the Autostar from Scopetronix($20 bucks, no
hassle as to correct connections) downloaded Skymap Pro5 demo, linked my
laptop and Autostar after aligning the ETX and two key strokes later I
was connected. Everything worked perfectly. Decided to purchase Skymap.
Seems to be a good program. Anyone have any comments on the Skymap. Had
previously tried to link to the Sky V4 level II but to no avail. Thought
I would pass this on. Thanks.

Boris



Subject:	ETX-Electric Focuser
Sent:	Sunday, March 21, 1999 20:29:17
From:	LooneyRoo@aol.com
I purchased the old ETX in December, and enjoyed 2 great months of use.
I frequently visit your site to read comments of other users and to see
what updates Meade is making.

I go to the University of Florida, but I bought my ETX at home in Miami.
You have no idea how upset I was when I saw the introduction of the
90/EC. While at home on a break, I went to the store where I purchased
my telescope, "Natural Wonders," and was pleasantly surprised by the
reaction of the sales associate. She insisted that she had no idea that
the new scope was coming out and demanded that I brought in my old scope
for an exchange of the new one. (I went in there to buy a moon filter,
and walked out with a new scope) I also purchased the Auto Star. What
surprised me, is that she told me that I did not even need the box to
return it. I noticed that other users have had problems in the past with
their dealers, but "Natural Wonders" was great.

I have nothing but great things to say about the scope. The only
improvement that I would make is on the focuser. (Although this was a
long letter, it does actually have a question in it.) Have you had any
feedback on the electric focuser? I do find that when focusing on faint
objects, the scope bounces a lot and I never really know when the object
is in focus. Does the add-on decrease the bounce, or am I better off
just trying to keep my hand steady?

I really appreciate the hard work that you put into your site. As a
novice astronomer, I was happy to see that there is a plethora of online
info for new telescope buyers. Thanks again, and I hope to hear from you
soon.

Sincerely, 
~Noah

Mike here: As to the Meade electronic focuser, I assume it works similarly to the JMI MotoFocus, which I review on the Showcase Products page. I don't have the Meade one so can't comment.



Subject:	 ETX Autostar NEW manual on Meade web site
Sent:	Sunday, March 21, 1999 16:48:15
From:	OptiquesJeff@worldnet.att.net (Jeffrey Nutkowitz)
Just out of curiosity, I was wondering if anyone had any comments about
the NEW, TOTALLY REWRITTEN Autostar instruction manual recently posted
on Meade's web site.

I down loaded and printed it out for myself. After thoroughly reading
and reviewing it, I can readily say that it is light years better than
the original, addressing many of the things that us early adopters were
disappointed with about it or that were simply absent but still
necessary in such a product's manual. It actually features complete,
step by step instructions, with illustrations, of most of the operations
and procedures, many of which received only cursory or confusing,
non-illustrated coverage in the original manual. Most of the Autostar
features are described in much greater detail, and there is a FAQ
addressing some of the most common misunderstandings that have surfaced
regarding Autostar operation.

I did, however, notice that one piece of very useful information which
WAS present in the original manual was absent in the new version, that
being the procedure for entering a set of RA and Dec coordinates of your
own choice, and having the scope GOTO those coordinates (it is found by
using an option in the menu that is accessed by holding down the Menu
button for a few seconds, revealing the Stats submenu, which shows the
coordinates that the scope is aimed at at any given moment). Details for
the procedures for entering your own observing locations, coordinates,
making a custom list, and editing the entries were also apparently
somewhat overlooked. Minor problems compared the major improvements the
new manual provides.

--
Jeffrey Nutkowitz/Optiques Classic Photographic Imagery
Freelance Outdoor and Nature Photography Emphasizing a 'Sense of Place'
http://members.aol.com/OptiquesJN

"If you don't change the path you're on, you'll end up where you're
already going."



Subject:	 ETX-90/EC
Sent:	Sunday, March 21, 1999 11:21:40
From:	billkamon@sprintmail.com (Bill Kamon)
The Discovery Channel Store near me allowed me to finally trade in my
old ETX for the new one. But it took some heavy persuasion with several
layers of beauracracy at their corporate headquarters before they
finally agreed to the trade-in. I'm satisfied. It seems one of the
problems they faced was that people didn't have all their original
packing, less than perfect components, etc. So what people were doing
was buying a new scope and then returning it but keeping a box, or
exchanging an old eyepiece for the new one and then after getting all
good components, finally trading in their old scope. Nevertheless, I'm
happy. Plus I bought the new tripod and the Autostar. The new scope
works great. Even w/o the Autostar, the new scope is a pleasure to use
with the standard hand controller. Viewing the moon is so much easier
with it. With the Autostar it's even better. You must take the time
though to setup everything properly. I'm getting better & better at it,
so it's quicker everytime.

A word of caution. Inspect the scope at the store. The first one they
gave me had some kind of dirt or shavings on the main mirror. No
problem, they brought out another one.

A couple of comments about the Discovery Channel store. If you sign up
for something called the "Passport" you get a $10 certificate for every
$150 spent, for use on future purchases. You have to wait for them to be
mailed, but if you purchase a scope, tripod and Autostar, you'll be able
to get a pretty good accessory when your certificates arrive. I.e. a
Barlow, the 90 degree viewfinder, etc.

Spoke with Meade the other day and the first upgrade to the Autostar
software will be on their Web site around 4/1/99. You'll need some type
of special cable(PC to Autostar). They said it would be available from
them or they would explain what you would need to make one. Maybe Radio
Shack will have the parts.

If people are having trouble finding an Autostar, just start calling up
Discovery Channel/Nature Company stores. I'm pretty sure they'll ship
you one via phone order.

Bill Kamon



Subject:	 No longer a 'Real' Astronomer.
Sent:	Saturday, March 20, 1999 13:21:40
From:	mikewrobel@harborcom.net (Michael Wrobel)
I went to my local Natural Wonder's store to take a look for myself at
the much ballyhood new fangled MEADE ETX 90/EC.   I told the salesperson
that I already owned the previous MEADE ETX 90 model.   I then proceeded
to tell him about how much I liked my old ETX because of its portability
and robustness ( I regularly carried it around in the trunk of my car
with nothing to protect it but a MEADE ETX softcase ).    I told him
about how I thought that it looked much more robust than the new ETX
90/EC with all of its electronic gadgets excetera.   Just before I was
about to tell him the speil about how real astronomers go find faint
magnitude 100 (my exageration ) objects on their own instead of relying
on fancy Autostar GOTO eletronics, the salesman asked me three simple
questions:

    1) Did you buy your ETX at Nature Wonders.
    2) Did you keep the original packing boxes.
    3) Did you keep your original receipt.

To these questions I answered, "Well Yes.  Why do you ask ?".   The
salesman answered, "Well if you bring in the old one, we will let you
trade it in for the new MEADE ETX 90/EC.".   I asked, "What would be the
difference in price ?".    To this he answered, "No difference."    To
this I answered, "Well, I still like my old ETX because I am familiar
with its optics and capabilities.   I would have to think real hard
about trading up and risking gettng a scope with different optics".   
To remind the reader, I am the guy who wrote in about the MEADE 9mm
Super Plossl that had the dark blury spot in the middle of the field of
view.

I left the store, got in the car and proceeded home to pack up the old
Meade to trade it in at that instant.    Fortunatelly for my pride, my
car died out on me and prevented from looking foolish by bringing the
old ETX in for the trade that day.    My car, in its concern for my
appearences, continued to give me trouble for the next several days,
further delaying any rash act such as trading in my old scope.   I don't
know why my car decided to act up that week.    It ran almost perfectly
for the first 187,242.8 miles.   Perhaps all that time in my trunk,
created some special mystical bond between the old ETX and my 1989 Ford
Probe.   I finally gave up trying to fix the car myself and took it into
see Bruce, my local mechanic,   I hesitated in suggesting my ETX delema
as a possible cause of my car troubles.   I figured that Bruce would not
understand or appreciate my theorys on why cars stop running.   It was
good I kept my mouth shut, as it turned out that my car troubles were
due to a worn out alternator not celestial mysticism.

All the time dealing with my car let me ponder and muse about the ETX
trade in issue.   Bruce's bill ($321) and advice to "Shoot the old
horse, and get another one." convinced me that my next major purchase
would not likily be a MEADE LX-200.    With my car troubles behind me I
solemnly packed up the old ETX in its original carton and took it down
to the Natural Wonders store.   I meet the same saleperson and told him,
"You know, after giving it a lot of thought, I think I might just take
you up on your offer.  I want to take a look at this new ETX one more
time though.".   After looking at it for a nano-second, I said "Are you
sure I can trade my old scope in ?   I bought it from you way back in
April of 1998.".   The saleman said "Yes".   A half nano-second later I
said,  "Ok, lets do it" and traded the old scope in.    Half feeling
guilty about depriving the salesman of a new Meade ETX 90/EC in favor of
my old ETX, I bought a ETX deluxe field tripod as well.   This of course
saved me from having to deal with mounting the new ETX to my old tripod.
The salesman, sensing my feelings of guilt, offered to sell me an
Autostar guider right there on the spot.   Fortunatelly for me, I am an
avid reader of the ETX/EC user comments on your Web page and was able to
come up with the lame excuse of not wanting to get the Autostar until
all of the software bugs have been worked out.   With that said, I took
the scope home and like a kid at christmas, eagerlly set it up and toyed
with the new gadgets and features.

First light for my new ETX/EC came the next night.  Not being to
familiar with equtorial mounts and elkctronically controlled mounts, I
was only able to track down Mars and a few of the bright stars.  Since
then I have become familiar enough with the gadgets to get the scope to
go where I want it.   Every time I do take it out and use it, I keep
thinking to myself about how nice the Autostar GOTO capability would be.
I have purposelly avoided the Natural Wonders store since the trade
because I know that if I go in, I will not be able to exit the store
empty handed.    The problem you see, is that I really like the Natural
Wonders store and I will not be able to hold out forever.   I will hope
to at least hold out long enough to find that all of the software bugs
in the Autostar have been worked out.

No longer a 'Real' Astronomer
Mike Wrobel.   



Subject:	 ETX-90/EC Update
Sent:	Friday, March 19, 1999 15:10:33
From:	jshy@widomaker.com (Jeff Shy)
I posted a note a few days ago about the problems that I had with
getting my autostar to accurately find anything.  The best I could get
was to have an aim that got almost into the finder scope.   I was also
concerned about excessive play in the RA axis.  I had even called The
Nature Company to ask if they would exchange the scope and they said, no
problem, just bring it in.

So, I called Meade and actually got to speak with someone.  He suggested
that I reset the scope, recalibrate, and re-train it.  He also suggested
using the two star alignment instead of the easy align to make sure that
I was picking stars with sufficient distance between them.

I asked about what I considered to be excessive play in my RA drive.  I
takes almost 8 seconds to change directions in the slowest speed.  He
told me that when autostar calibrates the scope, it measures the play
and accounts for it when locating stars.  I thought, yeah, sure.

I followed his instructions, reset, recalibrated and re-trained the
scope. Despite the instructions in the manual, I used a star as a
target.  As you can imagine, this technique requires making a slight
compensation for the rotation of the earth as the scope is trained.  But
I figured that the further away the target was from my location, the
more accurate I could be. I also used a 2x barlow lens with the 26 mm
eyepiece to get a higher power (96) and greater accuracy.  I took some
care in leveling the scope (although the Meade guy said it was not
necessary to have it perfectly level).

Boy, was I surprised.  Almost everything that I aimed at was almost dead
center in the 26 mm eyepiece.  Nothing was outside of the field of view.
I decided to put the barlow on and to my amazement, at least half of
the time the target was in the field of view at 96 power.  And sure
enough, the play in the RA drive was fully compensated for.

I did notice that after the AutoStar beeped to indicate that the star
had been found (at which time it was already in the field of view), I
had to wait another few second for the clock drive mechanism to kick in.
Once it did, it almost always had my object dead center.

It worked great.  Needless to say, I am greatly impressed.  I have owned
another small scope and never really could find much of anything.  I saw
more deep space objects in one night than I had ever seen in my other
scope. I was not even in a good dark site, nor was the sky all that
transparent, but I confirmed picking up things in the area of the 10th
magnitude.  I was amazed that the optics did that well on that type of
night.

I just wanted to forward this on as an encouragement to others trying to
get their scopes up and running.  All it that was really necessary was
to take a little care in setting things up and the ETX makes one
excellent, reasonably priced instrument.

Thanks, Mike for putting together this great resource to help us make
use of our scopes!



Subject:	 MEADE WEB site is ETX updated!
Sent:	Thursday, March 18, 1999 19:08:57
From:	pthorpe@mediaone.net (Peter Thorpe)
The MEADE site now has:

1) New AutoStar Manual.  Greatly improved!  And printable from a
browser.

2) ETX-90EC Telescope FAQ

3) AutoStar FAQ.  Very good stuff here.

Between the new manual and the FAQ many things are cleared up and much
is set strait (pun intended).

All Best Wishes
Peter Thorpe



Subject:	 Autostar manual
Sent:	Thursday, March 18, 1999 13:18:33
From:	OptiquesJeff@worldnet.att.net (Jeffrey Nutkowitz)
Hello! It appears that Meade has just placed a new, totally rewritten
Autostar instruction manual, along with a few other new items, on their
web site.

Jeffrey Nutkowitz/Optiques Classic Photographic Imagery
Freelance Outdoor and Nature Photography Emphasizing a 'Sense of Place'
http://members.aol.com/OptiquesJN



Subject:	 ETX/EC
Sent:	Wednesday, March 17, 1999 21:20:07
From:	dbarbee@cyberramp.net (Don Barbee)
When I saw the add for the ETX/EC I new I had to have it.  So I donated
my old ETX to my son and ordered my ETX/EC, Autostar and Field Tripod
from Astronomics.  Two days later I found all these boxes on my front
porch ready for me to play with.

I have carefully followed the directions.  I use the scope in Alt-Az
mode only.  I still remember the first time it slewed to Sirius in EZ
Align mode.  Bang right in the eyepiece.  Not in the center but I sure
didn't need the finder at all.  Next is slewed to Dubhe, yep right in
the eyepiece, I made the slight corrections and pressed enter.

I then asked it to go to M42, buzzzzz around it went and right dead
center in the eyepiece.  That night I also looked at M78, M43, M41, M35,
M36, M37, M38, M44, M45, M81, M82 and etc.  I must say I was delirious.

When the great Jupiter, Venus Conjuction occurred I had them in that 48x
eyepiece until I was tired of looking at them.  Yes it tracked them
right to the horizon perfectly.

I guess I must be living right.  Everything on my scope works.  After
reading all these negative reviews on your page I asked Astronomics
about their return rate.  Out of 140 units shipped (Late January) they
had returned one to Meade.

For those readers who haven't purchased an ETX/EC but are inclined to do
so,  Roger Tuthil offers Certified scopes for a nominal addition to the
cost of the scope.  He unpacks and sets up the scope and accessories and
makes sure everything is working as advertised.  He also offers THE BEST
Solar Filter for the ETX that you can buy.

Anyway Mike the site has gone so far beyond what you originally had
here, its trully amazing.  I really don't see how you keep up with it,
please don't stop.

Shoot I just realized I've got to buy another MOTO-FOCUS.   Oh well...

HINT - For EZ Align, Leveling is everything. But first do the CW, CCW
stuff.  In any event the control panel is on the West side and the small
fork sits over it.  Lock the Azimuth.  Move the tripod to point the
scope to the North and site in Polaris.  Now return the OTA to
horizontal.  Leveling: Don't level using a tripod level. (What makes you
think the setting on the tripod head is 90 degree's?)  Set a small level
on top of the drive base and adjust the tripod legs until the level
shows good in all directions.  Then put the level on top of the OTA
(Right, don't trust that setting circle either!) and level the tube. 
Now turn on the power and perform the EZ Align and, Duh! It works.  Just
make sure you do a good training job in the daytime.  Do it twice just
to be sure. If you want to do the alternative two star align then
leveling isn't necessary, only for EZ Align.

Don Barbee (A.K.A. Marvin Martian)

Added later:



I've also had some interesting dialogs with Doug Caan, although not
recently.  We both travel alot and even in this world of email it's
still hard to stay in touch.

I've also singled out a few submiters to help in the background.  You
know you can see where some of them have an obvious problem.  Like the
fellow that had 1/8 inch of slopp in the RA bearing.  I'm glad
tightening the nut did the trick for him.

I just felt the need to give a positive report.  The negatives seem the
rule.  We both know that most people are happy with their scope and they
just don't write about it.  As for this purist nonsense about learning
the sky first.  Using this little guy will teach you the sky.  When it
points in a direction to look for something you can't help but learn
where its at.  Then theres the problem of say looking for all those
Messiers in the Virgo cluster.  Are you sure your looking a M87?  The
only ringer in that group is M104!

I wish Meade would get their act together now.  They're very proud of
where they've come from and what they've done, and rightly so, but
little things add up.  When I contacted them about the PC to Autostar
connection, the guy who called me back said I was a little bit ahead of
them.  Huh?  I really don't want to try LX200 commands because their are
differences as there must be between the two.  The LX200's don't even
have the Easy Align mode.  I bet alot of LX200 users wish they did have
it!  Perhaps Meade will release it as a system upgrade for the LX200's.

They always seem in such a rush to get their new stuff out.  In the case
of Celestrons 90mm Mak, Meade doesn't need to worry.  It's such a joke I
can't believe Celestron even tries to market it on that german eq mount.
The only people who will buy those things are the Meade 'haters'.  You
know like a Ford versus Chevy type argument.  In this case however the
Meade is clearly superior.  You won't see the Celestron 90 Mak reviewed
in Sky and Telescope.

Ok, I'll dismount my soapbox now.  Until the next time.  All the best to
your site.



Subject:	 Update on repairs for ETX ec
Sent:	Wednesday, March 17, 1999 17:41:31
From:	rblake@hrw.com
As you may recall, I sent my ETX in to Meade because of a problem with
the fork rocking in the base and failing to slew in one direction when
in polar alignment. You asked me to let you know how things went. I got
the scope back yesterday. It is packed up and ready to go back to Meade
again today because they did nothing to fix the problem. They did manage
to replace the lever I broke thinking that cranking it a little tighter
might solve the problem, and I know they opened the base, cause they
left off the little stick-on rubber feet that cover the screw holes (my
first sign that attention to detail might not be at the top of the list
for these folks).

I am looking for some positive lesson to share with you from this, but
right now that is hard to come up with. I like a lot about the ETX, but
I have also tried out a TV Ranger and if I had it all to do over again I
might well give up what for me has been a zero benefit from the mount
and the Autostar, and just go for stone-simple quality (expensive)
optics.

By the way, my Autostar went back before the scope did, and I don't even
want a new one until they work out the bugs. Somebody at Meade actually
suggested that I could download a fix from their web site, and I had to
remind them that no such fix was yet available, and even if it was, no
cable to hook up to my Autostar is available through official channels.

Surely all of this will make me a better person, but I sure to envy
those folks who got a winner the first time out and are happily
automatically slewing from star to star at will. Count yourself lucky.

I guess the best suggestion I can make to potential ETX buyers, is to
buy locally from the Nature Company or some such place, check the scope
out right away, and demand an immediate replacement if everything is not
perfect. That will keep you out of Meade Customer Service world, and you
might luck out and end up with one of the non-lemons.

For my part, I do a lot of mail order, and am happy with my usual
vendor, Astronomics, but there is zero advantage to buying mail order
when the price is the same, and you stand a chance of getting a lemon.
From now on, I doubt that I will ever buy another Meade product by  mail
order.

Meanwhile, it will  be another few weeks before we see if Meade Customer
Service is up to the task. I hope they are, because I like the images I
see through the ETX optical tube. Right now that is all I can evaluate
because the rest of the ETX EC system has not performed as advertised so
far.

I hope I don't come off as a Meade basher. The ETX has the potential to
be a superb value, and I remain hopeful that I am dealing with quality
people in a quality company, but that has yet to be proven to my
satisfaction.

Again, many thanks for your treasure trove of ETX information, and
thanks to all the other folks who share their experiences, both positive
and negative.

Richard Blake
rblake@io.com



Subject:	ETX 90EC Autostar
Sent:	Tuesday, March 16, 1999 20:31:01
From:	JeffB24@aol.com
Great site, I found it the day I bought my ETX.  Briefly, I recently
discovered the delivery of my autostar controller was delayed because
MEADE recalled all of them to correct the software malfunction everyone
has noticed.  I understand from my vendor (The Telescope Store) all new
shipments were dealyed for at least six weeks.

So, someone from MEADE is listening.  Keep up the great work!
Clear Skies!
Jeff



Subject:	 ETX-90EC first light
Sent:	Tuesday, March 16, 1999 15:52:29
From:	kimjh@sce.com (Kim, Jin H)
When I was in the 2nd grade I spent most of my library Time at school
looking at the astronomy books (about 20 of them).  Most kids were still
reading Clifford.  When Carl Sagan's Cosmos was on TV briefly I taped
the series and watched it numerous Times.  I've been a subscriber to
Astronomy magazine for years.  I own several books on stargazing.  I'm a
member of the Planetary Society.  Yet I've never owned a telescope until
now.  It's about freakin' Time.  I saw the original ETX and I drooled
over it for years.  And then I saw the ad for the 90EC

First light was a pigeon across the street on a rooftop.  A rather
auspicious beginning.  The night called for cloudy skies but damn the
torpedoes, full speed ahead!  I drove 150 miles to the desert only to be
greeted with more clouds and haze.  In defiance of the conditions I
whipped out my 12 hour old scope and tripod.  Armed with a sky map that
didn't help me at all (wrong season) and no real light except for my
car's high beams (a definite no-no) and without a working spotting scope
(unmounted, uncalibrated), I looked around anyway.  After several hours
of hunting the hazy night skies, I finally spotted the only object worth
mentioning.  I don't even know what it was, other than it being
somewhere in the constellation Hydra.  But it was enough.  Satisfied at
this glimpse, I packed it up and headed home.

1.  There is a ring of paper around the base of the ETX marking off
degrees.  This strikes me as utterly useless since the thing isn't even
glued down and doesn't help to measure anything.  The non-rotating part
of the base has a little triangle which implies that this band does
something, but not when it's loose like this!  Is this unusual for an
ETX?  At least if they had another triangle on teh top part of the base
the scope could be aligned to a "neutral" position.

2.  Too much play, damnit!  The tube isn't properly anchored to the
fork!  I'm this -> <- close to whipping out my tools and figuring a way
to tighten the damnable thing down.  And too much free play along the y
axis.

3.  As mentioned before over and over, the scope teeters too much when
screwed to its tripod without any shims.  I have no problems adding
shims, but it seems like a great way to throw off the Autostar once I
get that thing plugged in and running (didn't try it that night.  Left
the instructions at home and didn't have much of a clear shot at
calibration anyway).

Meade's Corporate offices are about 4 miles from my offices so maybe
I'll take a drive down there and have them address my complaints.

Mike here: The scale on the base is the Right Ascension setting circle. It has to slide if you plan to use it to locate objects. Since the ETX RA motor drive does not run continuously, you have to reset the circle to match a known object's RA while the RA drive is engaged. Of course, this is only going to work when in polar alignment mode, not Alt-Az mode.



Subject:	 ETX-90/EC
Sent:	Tuesday, March 16, 1999 10:27:24
From:	b2k2wms@airmail.net (Blaine Williams)
Thanks everyone (especially Mike) for all the ETX comments  you have
helped me immensely.

I purchased my ETX-90/EC and the Meade ETX tripod from Natural Wonders.
I had the following problems:

1) slewing right and left would only run at high speed in polar
alignment

2) slewing right and left in polar alignment would stop after about two
seconds and then the button needs to be pressed again

3) sometimes slow speed would work and when zeroing in on something the
drive would kick in and move away at high speed for about two seconds
only in polar alignment

4) the scope would wobble excessively on the tripod

I called Mike Lee at Meade who told me that if the tripod mounting
screws were one inch long, they were too long and I should get a hacksaw
and cut off about a quarter of an inch.  I guess that the screws were
pushing something inside when a sideways pressure was applied.  I live
near Dallas, which requires a serious 33-degree slant when in polar
alignment.  Probably the problem occurs less the further north (in the
Northern Hemisphere) you live.

Being a non-handyman and wary of return policies that dont like me
cutting things, I made a plate to put between the scope and the tripod. 
The plate is made from three pieces from a cardboard box cut round to
fit under the scope.  The top piece has notches for the feet, they are
glued together with holes drilled through.  The three pieces gave me
about three eighths inch thickness.  I seem to have corrected all four
of my problems detailed above.  Everything about the scope is great!

Clear skies!

Blaine Williams
b2k2wms@airmail.net



Subject:	 EC Alignment
Sent:	Monday, March 15, 1999 19:27:33
From:	jshy@widomaker.com (Jeff Shy)
I just purchased a ETX-90EC and took it out tonight to see how well it
worked.  Manually slewing around the sky was very easy and I found a
number of targets easily.  I was quite impressed with the optics.

I went through the training drive routine on Sunday afternoon and
thought I had the thing ready to go for the computerized GOTO.  I got
the scope as level as possible on the tripod, pointed it north, and set
it into the home position.  I went through the easy alignment procedure
on two stars.

After that, I used the GOTO to find a few objects.  It consistently
centered high and to the left of the objects.  I decided to try the
alignment again. This time I took a little more care to make sure I was
pointed north and as level as possible (which wasn't perfect).

After this second alignment, I selected Betelguese and hit the GOTO key.
It got to the general area, but high and to the left again.  I manually
slewed to Betelguese.  Then I decided to try the GOTO feature to find
Betelguese to see what would happen.  The scope slewed about 90 degrees
right.  ????? From that point I tried to find Sirius.  Sure enough, the
scope started slewing right, and began heading right toward Sirius until
it hit a hardstop.

Any ideas of what's going on here?

How important is the leveling of the tripod?  I don' t think I had it
entirely level.  How important is the North alignment?  It seems to me
that the scope ought to be able to adjust for that.

I also have a fair amount of play in the azimuth drive.  8 1/4.  Using
the non-Autostar controller, it takes about 1/4 second to get it to
change directions in speed one and 8 seconds in speed 3.  How much of a
problem is that?  Is there a way to take up that slack?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!



Subject:	 Adding new sites in Autostar
Sent:	Sunday, March 14, 1999 6:37:35
From:	hoekstra@ticnet.com (Hoekstra)
Saw a couple posts about adding new sites in the Autostar and wanted to
explain how it's done. When you select  "Add" and it gives you a list of
countries/states, you can scroll up one and it will say "Custom". Press
enter to add that to the list. Next you choose "Select" to make custom
your current site. Then you can go to edit and change the name,
latitude, longitude, and timezone for your specific site. So the sites
are added to your custom list, then you select a site from that list,
then you can edit the details of that site if desired.

I did this last week while on a trip to Terlingua, Texas where we were
out in the middle of the Southwest desert mountains. I only had one
night of clear skies, but man was it amazing. The ETX performed like a
champ in Alt-Az mode and I was able to spend several hours viewing
galaxies I have never seen before. There were so many stars visible
naked eye that it made it hard to get my bearings at times and it was
even a bit difficult to align the ETX because I could see so many stars
through the viewfinder I wasn't sure which one I was supposed to be
centering (okay Sirius was easy, but Alioth was tough).

I am curious about the posts regarding a negative longitude and negative
offset from GMT. I have not done this and my Autostar seems to be
working fine in Alt-Az mode. Is this needed for polar mode? I haven't
been able to get polar mode to work worth a darn. Can't wait till Meade
provides an update to fix this.

Thanks for providing such a great forum for us to exchange ideas,
information, etc.

Randy Hoekstra
Richardson, Texas



Subject:	 ETX 90/EC Hardstops
Sent:	Saturday, March 13, 1999 17:15:16
From:	vonruden@netcom.com (Tony von Ruden)
I had to send my ETX 90/EC drive unit back for repair because of a
failure of the vertical motion drive shaft.  It turns out that to
implement those hard stops that everyone is obsessing about, Meade cut a
keyway into the shaft.  This leaves only ~3/32" of plastic taking all
the torsional loads from telescope and any camera equipment you have
hanging on it, and from the axial loads you apply to engage the vertical
motor drive.  The stress concentration near the keyway then magnifies
these stresses at least two times. It may be that all those scopes
rejected for not having stops may actually prove more robust than the
newer ones, if they are missing the keyway.  Ironically, when I opened
my unit up to see why it failed, I also noticed that one of the vertical
stop tabs was 3/4 of the way torn off, so they aren't designed to take
much load either.  Anyway, these are the two lessons I've learned that I
want to share:

1. BE VERY CAREFUL TIGHTENING THE VERTICAL CLUTCH, LEST YOU OVERSTRESS
THE VERTICAL DRIVE SHAFT.

2. DON'T STORE YOUR SCOPE WITH THE VERTICAL CLUTCH ENGAGED, LEST YOU
DAMAGE THE VERTICAL STOPS.

Thanks to all for making this such a great site!

Tony von Ruden



Subject:	 ETX-EC Questions
Sent:	Saturday, March 13, 1999 11:05:17
From:	jim-lowry@bluewin.ch (Jim Lowry)
Just received my new ETX marvel in Switzerland, sent from a US Natural
Wonders.  Obviously, I am hoping that I am not going to have to deal
with return issues.  However, I have some unresolved questions:

1) It is obvious that correct orientation and level tripod are necessary
for the easy alignment to work properly.  But once you are synched on
two stars, does the error get eliminated.  With an LX-200, you can be as
skew as you wish, and once the two stars are determined, the computer
aligns its "electronic" picture correctly.  My feeling is that the ETX
does NOT do this.  Comments?

2) Switzerland is +1 hours from GMT and +008 degrees longitude.  Does
Meade follow these conventions.  Many of the comments here recently seem
to point in different directions.

3) A few people have described the AltAz tracking as a hum. Mine is more
definitely a staccato barrage.  Not sounding like gears chewing apart,
mind you, but CERTAINLY not a hum.

4) How long is an acceptable backlash time?  What I mean is, when
tracking in AltAz, and you press W (retrograde) key, how long after you
stop should the gears catch and the staccato barrage start up again? 
With mine, it is 3 to 4 seconds.  Too much?

Take none of this as criticism of Meade or the ETX EC.  I don't regret
selling my old ETX at all, and I feel that the optics and mechanics are
FAR above what one may expect to get for the money.  A great bargain,
and a wonderful addition to our tools of exploration.  Thanks for your
great site, and service, and time.

Jim
far up in the Alps
jim-lowry@bluewin.ch



Subject:	 New ETX Worth it?
Sent:	Friday, March 12, 1999 18:07:39
From:	dick@dwalters.com (Dick Walters)
I'm starting to read e-mails questioning the advisability of buying a
new ETX-90/EC now, if at all.  As a rank amateur who recently purchased
an old ETX, took it back for an EC, then had to replace the EC due to a
mechanical problem, my advice: YES, just be careful.  Before you take it
home, check for smoothness of the focus knob (improved from the original
ETX), if the DEC hard stops are there (missing on early production) and
of course, the optical tube.  Nothing should rattle.

The new scope is a wonder, especially for a beginner.  The negative
comments I've heard are probably typical reactions to a new product that
has, until recently had poor product support from Meade.  There have
been apparent QA problems, so look it over carefully, or have your
dealer do so before you take it home.  (Mine came without the promised
Dec hard stops).  The Autostar has some quirks, but mostly in the
"polar" mode, which you may never use unless you get into astro
photography.  It's a computer, so one shouldn't work much differently
from another. Same firmware version 1.0. As for the table tripod, forget
it unless you don't plan to buy the Autostar. Go for the regular Meade
ETX tripod.  You may find the screws that attach the scope are a bit too
long and bottom out.  Use a 1/4" washer till Meade can send you a
replacement.  Set it up carefully (home RA is fully CCW then back CW
till the yoke with the small knob is over the control panel; not what
you'd expect, but it works. Tube level (use the tripod bubble) and point
it North)  If you do those things, it will go-to the objects you expect.
If you don't, you'll freeze out there trying to locate anything.

Most Autostar problems seem related to setting the scope in the proper
"home startup position".  One nice thing is that the software in this
baby can be updated via the Internet and patches are already being beta
tested. I understand Meade is planning a major overhaul of their WEB
site to feature the ETX and provide more info, software downloads, etc. 
Believe me, they have a winner here and don't intend to blow it.

Save for the right angle viewfinder coming this summer.  The one that is
provided for either ETX is a pain, unless you work in a Circus. Others
on the market invert the image and do not appear to be the quality of
the new one.  Consider the new hard case. It's cool.  Most of the
accessories for the new scope are not shipping yet, but should be
shortly.

Frankly, if I were a more serious student of the heavens (or younger), I
might enjoy the challenge of learning by searching the heavens.  I'd go
for a big scope and lug it around in a truck. With limited time to play,
and limited money to spend, the Autostar/ETX-EC combo is fantastic. 
It's a bit noisy when it moves, but hey, so's your car going to a dark
place to use it.

Dick Walters

Added later:



You DO have to train this puppy if you expect it to come home to you.



Subject:	 Scope/AutoStar Review and Possible new Scopes
Sent:	Friday, March 12, 1999 12:00:05
From:	wellesnlinda@juno.com (Welles G Hodgson)
First, thank you so much for your web site. I live in Hawaii and am just
getting into Astronomy. The last time I really looked at the stars was
in Boy Scouts some 20 years ago. I am now an engineer and very
particular with the quality of equipment.

Originally I was going to get an LX50 but with the more positive than
negative responses and recommendations for the ETX-90/EC, change my
mind.

From all the feedback from the many users, I learned much before
actually purchasing my scope. The first scope did not have the hard
stops. I wouldn't have known they were to be there if it wasn't for your
site. I had a problem with the drive also. So from your site and the
many Star Friends , I knew I had a bad scope.

I also purchased my equipment from The Nature Company and must agree
with everyone, "Why Buy It From Anyone Else!" The store personnel here
in Hawaii have been outstanding, checking the other scopes for hard
stops. Too bad Nature Company is having to go through the ringer because
of the defective equipment Meade is slipping through their quality
control.

I also purchased the AutoStar. After reading the many posts, I checked
my location's Lat./Lon. -OK. I then re-calibrated the motors (just to be
safe), placed it on the tripod, and then trained the scope very
carefully. Next I set the home position (following the instructions form
your posts) and waited for twilight. I did an easy align using the two
stars (I'm so new I don't know the names or star locations I only
aligned it to the bright stars the scope pointed to) and then said go to
Jupiter. The scope did not go to the star I thought was Jupiter but
pointed to something I couldn't see. So I manually slewed the scope to
the star and pressed identify on the AutoStar - Venus, WOW. I next
selected goto Saturn. The scope moved - homed in, beeped, I looked into
the eyepiece - There was Saturn. I put in the 2X barlow with my 26mm -
96 mag and there were the rings clear as day - no pun intended. I'm
hooked!

So everything works fine on my configuration. No collimation problems(as
far as I can tell), smooth movement in both alt/az directions, easy
focus.

There does to appear to be two small problems though. One is with the
lever on the base to tighten down the forks, it is made of plastic and
sits onto of the bolt head.  The set-screw was striped on mine and so
the lever is loose. I figure a little double-sided-foam sticky tape will
take care of the problem and lift the lever just high enough so that it
doesn't scratch the base when it is swung back and forth. The other
problem appears to be some dust on the primary mirror. - Have others
seen this? In all I am quite pleased with the System - BUT!

Now back to the AutoStar. My AutoStar version is 1.0c. In selecting the
telescope model during setup I decided to check what other models were
there - guess what, two more ETXs - ETX-70/EC and ETX-125/EC. MEADE
LOOKS LIKE THEY ARE COMING OUT WITH A 5 INCH ETX IN THE NEAR FUTURE. THE
HAVE ALREADY PROGRAMED THE MODEL INTO THE AUTOSTAR.

I post this model information on to let any very recent owners or
prospective buyers that they may want to move quickly. How long will it
be before the new scopes come out and how much - who knows but I expect
they will be deployed just like the ETX-90/EC, one day not there the
next day in the display case.

Happy star hunting my star friends

Welles...



Subject:	 ETX-90/EC and Autostar Problem Solved
Sent:	Thursday, March 11, 1999 21:56:23
From:	metzpa@pacbell.net (Don Metzner)
After reading Jerry Bame's inspiring comment of March 8, I went into the
site menu, then to edit, when asked for the lat. I put in Sacramento at
38 degrees+ then went to longitude and changed the + to a - 121degree's
west then changed the GMT time from +8 hour to -8 hour then I went out
in the cold, hoping this would work. I have been trying to get the
"goto" function to come within an a couple of inches of the finder scope
for 3 weeks, without alot of sucess. Well out in the cold I  1. Leveled
the base very carefully, so that it was level as I rotated it around the
alt/az axis(I have my ETX on a tripod with a Bogen swevel head. 2. Have
the control panel facing west. 3. Have the fork with the dec. numbers
centered over the control panel, the home position, to arrive at the
home position rotate the OTA counterclockwise to the hard stop, then
rotate clockwise about 1/4 turn until the fork with the dec numbers is
centered over the control panel this is now the azt/az Home position.4
Have the OTA pointed at Polaris 5. Have the OTA Level (approx. at 0 on
the dec scale, I use the level cause my scale is off about 1.5 degrees.
Now with all this done go to align (in the alt/az mount mode) press
enter, it asks if you want easy align, push enter it slews to Sirius and
it hit it DEAD CENTER in the 26mm eyepiece, first time that has happen,
I am getting excited,so I press enter again and it heads for Alioth and
again DEAD CENTER, that is pretty much the way it went for an hour and a
half. Never went the wrong way, never hit the hard stop, all the
problems I had been having seem to be related to wrong longitude entry,
wrong GMT entry, and not following the proper setup procedure (level).
Hope this helps. Regards to all, this is a great asset Mike thanks for
the Web page. Don Metzner in Loomis, CA



Subject:	 A friendly suggestion for ETX-90/EC buyers
Sent:	Thursday, March 11, 1999 8:12:25
From:	hopewell@ctg.net (Meade Daffron)
I've been reading a lot of negative comments about the ETX-90/EC and
Autostar lately. Maybe they're deserved, maybe not. I for one, being a
ham radio buff who's used to new electronic gizmos being introduced to
the public before the "bugs" have been worked out, have not ordered an
Autostar for my /EC yet. Yeah, so it's unfair to "test" a new device on
the purchasing public. So what's new? How about new cars? Computers?
Windows 95? C'mon, 'tis the age of bugs!

I have been reading comments from "versed" amateurs that the ETX-90/EC
is a bad choice for beginners since the GOTO feature keeps them from
learning the night sky. I agree on that point -- learning the sky is
vital; I've been into this hobby for 20 years. However, these people
should keep in mind that the ETX-90/EC doesn't come with the Autostar.
GOTOing is an option. I've had my plain ETX-90/EC for 2 months now, and
I've got to say that the "simpler" handbox that comes standard with the
scope makes things much easier than with the "classic" ETX. I can't
begin to describe how much easier this scope is to use when you can use
the smooth slewing controls without fumbling around with tiny locks and
knobs in the dark. In fact, once you learn to use the standard handbox
by feel alone, it's amazing how fast and effortlessly you can get
around. I'm having so much more fun with the "standard" ETX-90/EC, I'm
now debating whether I'll be buying the Autostar at all! It definitely
isn't a priority -- maybe since I took the time to learn the sky as a
youngster. Who knows.

My suggestion to all of you who are considering an ETX-90/EC but are now
having second thoughts -- buy the ETX-90/EC and WAIT! on the Autostar.
Let 'em work the bugs out, and learn a little about starhopping, right
ascension and declination while you're waiting!

Two responses to posts in your March 10 ETX-90/EC update:

1) THANK YOU SO MUCH to the amateur who sent in the photo of the
ETX-90/EC RA gear assembly! Fortunately, I haven't shared his problem,
and the curiosity bug hasn't bitten me enough to remove my base.
However, the appearance of those big METAL gears and METAL housing looks
like a HUGE improvement over the wimpy "toy car" innards of the
"classic" ETX! (BTW, if his ETX's little rubber feet won't re-stick to
his base when he puts the base plate back on, Radio Shack sells those
too. I'm tempted to buy a pack and stick three more on my base, making
six. You know, I believe the original ETX had five feet -- seems they
would've had at least that many on the new one, especially since the new
one will see a lot more use in alt-az mode. It even looks like there are
places on the base between the existing feet where extra feet were
intended ... anybody else notice this?)

2) The final post on your March 10 update mentioned a problem with the
declination circle being inaccurate -- I believe the amateur said it was
roughly 1.5 degrees off. Solution: With the new ETX you can still loosen
the LEFT declination knob (the non-knurled one over the marked setting
circle) and rotate the circle independently to fix any error. Had to do
it on my old ETX to make both circles agree, and I've already done it
with my new one because mine was off a little too.

Mike, thanks again! I've seen some "imitator" ETX sites, but as M.C.
Hammer used to say, "Can't touch this!"

Meade Daffron
A very satisfied ETX-90/EC owner
Richmond, VA



Subject:	 Site Selections on Autostar
Sent:	Thursday, March 11, 1999 0:58:15
From:	OptiquesJeff@worldnet.att.net (Jeffrey Nutkowitz)
Among other things, Liem asks:

"But then I thought, if Add behaves like Select, maybe Edit behaves like
Add.  Has anyone tried to add a new site to the database?  Did you have
to use Edit to add the site?  And if you did, what happened to the site
that was currently selected?  Is it still in the database, or was it
edited with the new site parameters?"

And so on. I cannot answer the most logically important questions,
especially regarding the Edit function, as I have not tried it. What I
have done is Add a site. What happens is that I had to select another
site from the main list of countries, states, and cities, and then it
was added to a small list, which contained only the very first site I
used when I first set up the Autostar. So, now, if I use the Site>Select
(I THINK!) sub-function, I can choose between the two sites I have
added...Camden NJ and Phila PA. (depending on which side of the Delaware
I happen to be on at the moment...LOL...actually the Camden site was
selected as the closest one to the Wharton State Forest in central/south
NJ, part of the Pine Barrens, and one of the darker and most practical
observing sites I have found within an hour of Philadelphia) Delete will
assumedly remove one or the other from my tiny list. I suppose the
object here is to create a list of your most frequently used observing
sites, so you do not have to always select them from the much larger
main list.

I too am curious about how to add a site that is not listed in the main
list, and about what happens when something in it is edited. In reality,
as long as the site selected is within about 60 miles of the actual
observing site, the timing and other functional differences in the
computer, between the selected site and the actual observing site, are
pretty much irrelevant for all practical observing purposes. Yes, yes, I
know, some folks, including myself, do want to be able to enter the
precise coordinates of their favorite observing sites, which, in many
cases, are nowhere near any big cities or the main sites listed in the
computer. Hopefully the procedures will make themselves known as more of
us get some more experience with the Autostar, or more info is
forthcoming from Meade and other sources.

Jeffrey Nutkowitz/Optiques Classic Photographic Imagery
Freelance Outdoor and Nature Photography Emphasizing a 'Sense of Place'
http://members.aol.com/OptiquesJN



Subject:	 Autostar mind bender
Sent:	Wednesday, March 10, 1999 15:00:36
From:	f16d@home.com (TODD SYME)
We too have the below the horizon bug. We are in Mi. at the Pontiac
location menu choice. Trying to polar align on the field tripod the
autostar tells me that the alignment was successful but when I use the
goto menu I get below the horizon on objects that are clearly visible.
All is well in alt/az mode. Thank you for all the great info on this
site. I hope meade fixes this soon.  Todd & Nina Syme
                                    f16d@home.com



Subject:	 Slop in Fork Axis
Sent:	Tuesday, March 9, 1999 16:29:26
From:	sbinkley@mindspring.com (Mindspring Email)
This email is a follow up to a previous message you were kind enough to
post concerning excessive slop in the fork axis of my ETX-90/EC.  Also,
many thanks to those who reponded to my post.  The responses left no
doubt that my scope had far too much play in it.



ETX-90/EC drive shaft

What I have learned may be useful to others. The bottom cover can be removed from the base by removing the three screws hidden under the rubber feet. The photo shows the gear assembly which drives the fork axis. What I found was that the large nut seen directly under the gear at the base of the fork axis was so loose I could easily turn it with a finger. I simply snugged it up using my finger. This simple adjustment removed all of the vertical movement in the axis and 90% of the slop. Movement on the fork axis is now very smooth and steady. I hope this proves useful to others.



Subject:	 ETX-90/EC
Sent:	Tuesday, March 9, 1999 10:52:06
From:	rightworks@rated-g.com (Michael Janocik)
Much to the shagrin of my wife, I went out an bought the new ETX-90/EC
despite being a current owner of the classic ETX Astro.  I am intrigued
at the ability to computerize the mount so, for $750.00 I can get
portable, first-rate optical performance, coupled with computer
controlling capabilities.  You cannot beat this value.

I have seen many complaints on this board regarding the new unit, so I
thought I would offer a different perspective.   I went to the Nture
Company (why go anywhere else), purchased the scope, brought it home,
unpacked it and alas - QUality is superb.  I have horizontal and
vertical stops, a base with no slop, a focus knob that is smooth, great
optics with no collimnation problems, smooth movement in both alt/az
directions.   Great lense, no dust, not grease, no scratches.  All in
all, an impeccable instrument.  Oh, and also, I do not find the
instructions all that bad.

Just wanted to give my 2 cents.  Mike, thank you very much for your
site.

Cordially,

Michael J.



Subject:	 Polar Alignment Problems
Sent:	Monday, March 8, 1999 10:17:45
From:	wboeck@radiks.net (Wayne Boeck)
I have a similar problem as others have mentioned concerning autostar
alignment. I have gone thru setting my mount to Polar, and then trying
the easy align, it slews to select both stars and says that it is
aligned properly. However, when I select an object like M42 it says that
it is below the horizon. It repeats this same message with any object
that I select which is well above the horizon. I did try the two star
alignment option. After selecting the second star, the autostar said it
was calculating and then said error "Not properly aligned". However, if
I select M42 it will slew to it. I am practicing with this in my home so
I have not tried the scope on any celestrial objects.

I have not yet trained my scope. Maybe this is where some problems lay.
However, I hope Meade places their software patch on the web soon. It
will be nice to have the bugs worked out before I attempt to show it off
to someone. I hate looking like a fool.

Thanks,
Wayne

Mike here: From what I read in the Autostar manual that is posted on Meade's web site, it appears that you do have to calibrate the Autostar for your telescope and train it for your drive. If you haven't done that, I suspect things will not work properly.



Subject:	 ETX woes
Sent:	Monday, March 8, 1999 8:45:25
From:	rblake@io.com (Richard Blake)
I learn so much from your site, that I figure I have some obligation to
share my EC experience. I sure do envy those folks who have one that
works as advertised. My scope is back with Meade for repairs. Here is an
excerpt from my letter that accompanied the scope heading back to them.

So here are the problems. The fork arm mounting portion of the base
wobbles around the central pivot. That is a minor irritation, but it may
have something to do with the big problem that occurs when you try to
run the scope in Polar mode . Apparently the leverage on the mount in
Polar alignment shifts something out of place internally, because the
scope will not slew in azimuth properly in both directions. It slews in
one direction OK, but will just stick and emit a louder than usual
screetch when attempting to go the other way. No problems with
declination that I have noticed so far.

I could have lived with that problem for a while if the Autostar had
worked, cause the scope wobbled a bit but seemed to work OK in Alt/Az .
I read all the posts and did all the right things and spent very little
time viewing, and a lot of time fiddling. Sent the Autostar back to
Astronomics for credit.  I have had nothing but good experiences dealing
with Astronomics, but will probably purchase my next Autostar locally so
I can keep taking them back everyday until I find one that works.

No doubt, Meade will sell a jillion of these little scopes, and I will
probably keep mine, but if this had been my first purchase, instead of
my third, I probably would have just given up in frustration, and looked
for something else. (I know there is nothing else comparable at the
price, but all the wondrous features don't mean much when they don't
work) However the little scope has a lot of  potential, I am encouraged
to read of other's positive experiences on your site and elsewhere, and
I want to see for myself what the ETX can do when it performs properly,
so I will stay the course for now.

Thanks to all the folks who have share their experiences -- both good
and bad, and thanks again for your very helpful web site.

rblake@io.com



Subject:	 ETX-90/EC and Autostar
Sent:	Monday, March 8, 1999 8:08:02
From:	gerald.l.bame.jr@lmco.com (Jerry Bame)
Once again kudos for a great site...couldn't get by without it.

I sold my old ETX for $400 as soon as I heard about the EC.  Just picked
up the Autostar last week and was immediately bummed.  Although it would
find Sirius and Alioth ok it couldn't find anything else after the Easy
Alignment.  A quick trip to your site solved the problem.  I had
selected Englewood, Colorado as my home site and upon investigating the
latitude and longitude settings I noticed that Meade had really screwed
up.  They had all west longitudes as positive (+).  West longitudes
should be negative!  Also they had the time zone as GMT +7 instead of
GMT -7.  No wonder my Autostar couldn't find anything, it thought I was
somewhere in China!!  Once I fixed the problem, the Autostar put
everything in or very close to the field of view for the 26mm plossel. I
saw more objects in one night than I'd ever seen before.  What an
enjoyable viewing session!  Who cares about the viewfinder problem, the
Autostar makes it so you don't need to use it as much if at all.
Hopefully Meade has fixed this problem for the Autostar update.

My next step was to make the RS-232 cable per instructions on your site
and download the Skymap demo software.  Bingo, works like a charm and
makes viewing even easier because you don't have to scroll through the
Autostar items and HOPE you chose one that is visible.  Just point and
click on your laptop and you're there.

I thought the original ETX was great but the new one + Autostar is a
VAST improvement despite Meade's screwup.

Clear Skies,

Jerry Bame
gerald.l.bame.jr@lmco.com
Viewing @ 6100' msl



Subject:	 My page on ETX+Autostar in Polar mode, and some thank you's
Sent:	Sunday, March 7, 1999 23:03:02
From:	roland@cobaltgroup.com (Liem Bahneman)

http://asteroid.org/liem/etx-alignment.html

Its a document that I have composed that steps you through getting your
EC+Autostar working in Polar mode. Its not official or guaranteed, but
it does get me through an evening on viewing, aside from the times when
the Autostar likes to rotate 370degrees to get to a star that's only 10
degrees away (and usally hitting a hard-stop on the way).

Anyways, good luck, and let me know if you find any problems with my
documentation.

Also, I want to thank Marc M. Triola, M.D. (mtriola@ibm.net) for his
tips on parts from Radio Shack, I now have working power supply, as well
as Cameron Brennan (etx@neurosurgeon.net) for the pinout to a working
serial cable!

I now have some computer control of my ETX (one-step closer to a
remote-access, CCD-powered observatory!). Any ETA on Autostar API
documentation?

- liem

============================================================================
Liem Bahneman	                                      roland@cobaltgroup.com
Senior Systems Administrator	  	  http://www.cobaltgroup.com/~roland
The Cobalt Group					 (206) 269-6363 x300
Seattle, Washington					F(206) 269-6350



Subject:	ETX-90/EC Autostar info
Sent:	Sunday, March 7, 1999 16:28:47
From:	Kavorka6@aol.com
I found something strange when I tried to add a new site to the Autostar
database.  When I first initialized the Autostar, I picked the closest
city to me that was already in the database (only 25 miles away).  Now
that I know my exact location, I thought I would add it to the database
so that GOTO might be even more accurate.  Here is what I found when
trying to add a site.

There are 4 items in the Site submenu:  Select, Add, Delete, and Edit. 
Under Add, the Autostar asks for the country and nearest city, as if it
was trying to 'select' a site from the database.  So then I tried
Select.  Under Select, the Autostar displays the currently selected
site, but you can't 'select' a different site.  The scroll keys do not
scroll through the other available sites.  As far as I can tell, Select
does nothing other than show what is already selected.

Hmmmmm.... so what does Edit do?  Edit behaves like it is going to edit
the currently selected site.  I can choose to edit the name, latitude,
longitude and time zone.  But will it actually change the current site
and save it?  I didn't try it because I don't want to change the
parameters for the current site.  All I want to do is add a NEW site.

But then I thought, if Add behaves like Select, maybe Edit behaves like
Add.  Has anyone tried to add a new site to the database?  Did you have
to use Edit to add the site?  And if you did, what happened to the site
that was currently selected?  Is it still in the database, or was it
edited with the new site parameters?

I guess I will ask Meade customer service about this, but right now I am
not comfortable with their knowledge of the product.  I thought I would
get a more accurate answer here!

The backlash in the gears (especially the declination axis) is annoying.
Also, I think my optical tube points up slightly (about 1.5 degrees)
when the setting circle is at 0 degrees.  There is a vertical stop that
keeps the optical tube from hitting the base, but the viewfinder bracket
can still hit the left fork arm.  It seems like the declination axis
(both setting circle and rotational stops) is slightly out of position. 
But if I send this one back (sent one back already) I might get
something even worse!

Otherwise, the ETX and Autostar seem to be working correctly.  I have
not had the scope outside due to the rotten winter weather, but playing
with it through house windows gives pretty good results.  GOTO's are
quite close after "syncing", considering that I am not doing an accurate
two star alignment (centering the stars).  Last night It was centering
dead nuts on Saturn after doing a sync on Saturn and going back and
forth between Saturn and the Pleiades.

Thanks in advance for any info you can provide,

Todd



Subject:	 ETX-90/EC, Problems
Sent:	Saturday, March 6, 1999 8:24:32
From:	metzpa@pacbell.net (Don Metzner)
My story goes like many others, 3 weeks ago I purchased the ETX-90/EC
and the Autostar, which probably should be called the" MANUALSTAR" or
maybe the "AUTOSOMETIMESSTAR". This ETX lasted 2 times out, could not
get it to track correctly then the RA motor would run but the OTA would
not move. I took it off the mount and turned it over and could hear
something rattling around in the base. This is perhaps after a total of
1 hours use. I took it back to the store and exchanged it.The second
unit has more slop in  both drive trains but the first nite out came
close in the dec. mode but was off 1 to 2 in in the RA mode, had to slew
manually  to get it aligned.I believe that some of the problems I am
having are related to my setup and leveling, I live in the hills and
nothing is level.

I don't know how much of my tracking problem (not hitting the target,
not in the finder scope) are related to the 1. Gear slop (that might be
solved by another ETX with a tighter gear train). 2. My set up procedure
(I have only been working in the Alt/Az mode).  3. The Autostar.

Last nite I aligned in the Alt/Az mode, went to find object (Polaris) it
slewed around CCW (fast) got real close to Polaris, slowed down was
about to stop when all of a sudden" There She Goes", into high gear and
CCW away from Polaris, I slewed back asked it to find polaris again and
the same thing happened, this time I let it go and it went until it hit
the hard stop.

This same nite when I first tried to align, It was headed toward Sirius
got about 30 degree's east and stopped the error message said that I had
a motor failure and check the batteries, I aligned again and it did the
same thing, it was no where near the hard stops, the batteries were
brand new. I aligned again and it worked.

Any input would be appreciated, I see Mr. Bahneman commented on a March
2 that his screw fell out also. Has anyone sent there ETX back to Meade
and had it personally tuned up?  If so how did that work out? I don't
think we should expect that this will hit the target for hours on end
but it should come within the finders field most of the time.

This site is a great asset to owners of this experimental product.

Don Metzner in Loomis California (cloudy alot)



Subject:	 Autostar Rev 1.1
Sent:	Friday, March 5, 1999 22:10:59
From:	rod_laird@csi.com (Rod Laird)
Ken Baun (Meade Engineering V/P) has let me know it's OK to make public
an official rev 1.1 release of the Autostar firmware due later this
month with any luck. Should be posted on the Meade web site in about 2
weeks. Fixes much of the first generation reported bugs. More info when
I'm allowed.

Roderick K Laird
Melbourne, Australia
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rod_laird
PGP at keyserver pgpkeys.mit.edu



Subject:	 Re: More frustration
Sent:	Friday, March 5, 1999 16:34:02
From:	mwyatt@pclink.com (Mike Wyatt)
There is definately a problem with the polar mode section of the
software I think.  Liem and I are also having problems with the software
in polar mode. The posts below describe another common error which may
be related to the issue.
----------------------------------------------------
Mike Wyatt
http://www.pclink.com/mwyatt
mwyatt@pclink.com
"Save a star, kill a light"
----------------------------------------------------

-----Original Message-----

From: Mike Wyatt (mwyatt@pclink.com)
To: etx@listbot.com (etx@listbot.com)
Date: Friday, March 05, 1999 6:12 PM
Subject: Re: More frustration

>Liem,
>I too have had the exact error you mention with my scope and it only occurs
>when the settings are set under SETUP\TELESCOPE\MOUNT are set to POLAR using
>a wedge.  The scope "should" work either with or without a wedge as long as
>the settings there are appropriate.  In my case I wanted to use the rear
>mount on OTA to put my focal reducer on and with the scope in alt/az, the
>scope couldn't get at near the zenith.  So now I'm back in altaz mode.
>   I suspect that if you set your settings to ALT/AZ in that menu the
>problem would disappear. This, I think, is a bug in the software for sure.
>You are not alone in your frustration on this one, I too was getting wrong
>below horizons while in polar mode.  It seems to be related to the "goto"
>functioning because if I set the screen to display the scopes position and
>use the buttons to manually slew to the M42 coordinates while watching the
>display, the scope ends up pointing in the direction of M42.  Then, without
>moving the scope, I chose M42 and "goto" and got the "Below Horizon/BEEP"
>Perhaps the manual skips something, I don't know either.  I would call
>Meade, as I am so that any future "downloadable" fixes include this one....
>----------------------------------------------------
>Mike Wyatt
>http://www.pclink.com/mwyatt
>mwyatt@pclink.com
>"Save a star, kill a light"
>----------------------------------------------------
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Liem Bahneman (roland@cobaltgroup.com)
>To: etx@listbot.com (etx@listbot.com)
>Date: Thursday, March 04, 1999 11:27 PM
>Subject: More frustration
>
>
>>Meade ETX Mailing List - http://members.aol.com/etxastro
>>
>>
>>I hope I don't sound like I'm using this list as a vent for my
>>frustration, but maybe this problem is pilot error, not mechanical ;)
>>
>>I got my replacement scope from Natural Wonders (the one with the broken
>>RA axis). I rigged up the Autostar and tried a mock polar-alignment. The
>>unit kept erroring out after 8 seconds of slewing, which I later attribute
>>to not calibrating the Autostar to the new scope/drive. *phew*
>>
>>So I put the scope outside and performed an easy polar align. It actually
>>worked! The first star it aligned on was Sirius. It wasn't perfect, but it
>>was definately in the viewfinder. The 2nd star it used was Alioth, and
>>this, too, was in the viewfinder.
>>
>>So I go to Object mode and select Star -> Named -> Sirius.
>>
>>*BEEEP* "Object is below horizon"
>>
>>Hello? You just aligned with it! I then asked it to GOTO M42.. *BEEEP*
>>"Object is below horizon". I lifted my head and could plainly see Orion
>>high in the sky.
>>
>>I could be starting out wrong, with the telescope mounted on the tripod
>>backwards, but then, how can it properly align with Sirius and Alioth?
>>
>>I'm hearing confusion on the list regarding documentation and how the ETX
>>is supposed to be physically aligned. What is the right answer for polar
>>alignment?
>>
>>thanks,
>>
>>- liem
>>
>>==========================================================================
=
>=
>>Liem Bahneman                                       roland@cobaltgroup.com
>>Senior Systems Administrator     http://www.cobaltgroup.com/~roland
>>The Cobalt Group (206) 269-6363 x300
>>Seattle, Washington F(206) 269-6350
>>
>>
>>______________________________________________________________________
>>To unsubscribe, write to etx-unsubscribe@listbot.com
>>Start Your Own FREE Email List at http://www.listbot.com/



Subject:	 polar alignment
Sent:	Friday, March 5, 1999 5:42:56
From:	ehergert@hamamatsu.com (Earl Hergert)
Thanks for the great site.  This post is regarding a post made by
another fellow who had trouble in the polar alignment mode.  I faxed
mead the following :

 I purchased an ETX-90EC with the Autostar controller.  The
unit is mounted on the ETX field tripod.  I prefer the polar
alignment option and followed the instructions in the manual to polar
align the telescope.  At this point all is well.   After
completing the alignment I power up the auto star.  Set the correct
time (7:30pm) and date Feb 17 1999.  The Site is that I have
selected is New Brunswick NJ.

The next set is to select “Setup  Align  Easy.   The
Autostar selects Sirius as the first alignment star and slew’s to the
correct position in the sky. I hit enter.   The next star
selected by Autostar is Dubhe (aU-Ma), 
Autostar again slew’s to the correct position in the sky I hit enter
again.  The message Alignment successful is displayed. 

This is where things get strange.   Next I select “Object
Constellation- Orion Rigel “  I hit the goto button,  to my
dismay the Autostar displays “object below horizon”. I tried all of the
stars in Orion with the same result. I find this puzzling because I can
see Orion high in the sky.   I rechecked  the entire setup
and confirmed that everything is correct.

Next, I try “Setup Align  Two Star”  I select Dubhe again and
the Autostar slew’s to the correct position.  The second alignment
star I choose is Rigel this time the Autostar slew’s over to Rigel 
which minutes before it had told me Rigel was below the horizon. 
Autostar then confirms “alignment successful”.   I then select
“Object  Deepsky  Named Objects  M42 Great Orion
Nebula”  hit goto.  The telescope attempts to slew around a
complete 360 degrees but hits the RA stop.  This also seems strange
because as you know M42 is very near Rigel and should only require a
minor adjustment to center.

I have spent a couple of hours both indoors and outside repeating the
same series of events.  I have check and recheck the  setup and
polar alignment.  The series of events described above is
repeatable.  I have not tried this in the Alt Az mode, that will be
my next step.  However I feel that it should work in the polar
mode.

I attempted to call tech support yesterday 2/16/99 at about 8:45
PST.  However the person I spoke with did not seem in the mood for a
discussion of this trouble.  I imagine he is quite busy.  So I
am sending this fax in the hope that someone will read it when they have
a chance and advise me if I am doing something fundamentally
wrong.   I am really looking forward to using this telescope
from all that I have heard it is a great product and should sell very
well.   Please read over my fax and let me know what you
think.  I hope for an  easy solution.

Thank you for your time

Best regard
Earl Hergert

This was the fax I sent after re-faxing it to meade 2 times I finally got a response.  One of the tech support
people called me and said they have never heard of this before and that I probably have the time set
incorrectly.  He later recanted because the scope correctly polar aligned.  He therefore only said I should
not do  that and I should return it to mead if it continues or use it in the Alt-Az mode.  All I can say is I hope
they put out a new version of the software,  until then try Alt-Az.  Again thanks for the great site Mike  I wish meade was as helpful as you. Ps sorry for the long post. Best Regards Earl Hergert Applications Engineer Hamamatsu Corp Phone 908-231-0960 Fax     908-231-1539 ehergert@hamamatsu.com



Subject:	 AutoStar motor calibration
Sent:	Thursday, March 4, 1999 20:12:57
From:	jherron@voyager.net (Jim Herron)
Having read mixed results on the success of AutoStar users I was really
glad to see how easily software updates were designed into the product.
Downloads from the Meade site (real soon now?), or simply drop by your
local dealer and daisy chain a unit on display with newer software
installed to mine for a quick update!

I went ahead and bought mine, when I picked it up from my dealer (I
don't think it's a stock item), I was told by the sales rep that "when
it (assuming my unit) arrived one of the staff opened it and plugged it
into the floor model.. and it's really cool".

Reading the manual, I now see that the VERY FIRST time power is supplied
to AutoStar motor calibration is performed.  You can initiate a
re-calibration via the submenus of the unit, good thing!  Now I'm
wondering if some of the negative posts I've read were in part due to
that first ever initialization being matched to a floor model versus the
owner's actual unit?

Jim Herron



Subject:	 Meade Website update & ETX/90-EC & AutoStar manuals now online
Sent:	Thursday, March 4, 1999 19:58:55
From:	jherron@voyager.net (Jim Herron)
Just noticed the Meade web site now has the new models.  I was concerned
over the paper quality and binding of my AutoStar user manual, so I was
very glad to see it on a web page.  A few clipboard copies into Word and
presto... reprinting with larger more readable font size.  Saving to a
Word file and I'm no longer concerned if a damp evening will ruin my
manual.  . But reprints won't be a problem, I'll laminate my new full
size 8.5x11 pages for the field anyway

AutoStar Software downloads - Not Yet!   I noticed that they stated on
one of the pages "soon to be available" though.

I didn't see the page cited in the Autostar printed doc for "updated
information on orbits and complete instructions on how to use this
feature" re: statelite tracking, however I didn't look that closely
either just expected it would be hyperlinked if it was avail.

Hats off to my local (actually 35 miles away) Natural Wonders.. they
upgrade/exchanged  my Xmas season purchase ETX no cost to the EC model
as soon as it arrived in their store.. no hassle).  No loss to them
though.. they've already sold me the tripod, carry bag, autostar, and
9.7.  If they ever get the 8x25 right angle finder and autofocus I'll
ring their register a few more times. When the time comes if the LX-50
wins the toss over the C-8 Deluxe.. they will be reaping the markup on
that item too.

I'm still hoping Meade will help themselves and original ETX users by at
least offering a generic GEM autostar tripod for the old ETX market.  If
they are providing something called a  DS-60 and DS-70 model (per
AutoStar Manual) outfitted for AutoStar.. then it would seem to me the
OTA removed from the old ETX base could be mounted onto a modified
verison of these 2 units tripods.  Almost seems a no-brainer helps sell
AutoStars, interface cables, software... cha ching.  Or maybe they are
hoping to serve the old ETX users via an EC version of a cost effective
larger aperature Mak???



Subject:	 Re: POLAR ALIGNMENT
Sent:	Thursday, March 4, 1999 5:19:05
From:	pleiades@erols.com
Thanks for your help. I'm with the other person who'd be willing to
donate a couple of bucks so that you could have an ETX too. Or just
maybe with all of the problems you see, maybe tou don't want one. Keep
up the great work on your page. Paul B. Perlmutter



Subject:	 POLAR ALIGNMENT
Sent:	Wednesday, March 3, 1999 12:36:57
From:	pleiades@erols.com (PAUL B. PERLMUTTER)
I wanted to know if anyone out there is able to polar align the scope
and use it successfully it the polar alignment mode. I don't have any
problems using it in the alt-az mode. When i set up for polar mode, it
doesn't even come close to the alingment stars either in the easy method
or in 1 or 2 star modes.
Paul B. Perlmutter(pleiades@erols.Com)
P.S. When I called meade they said that they hadn't heard that
complaint. I called the place I bought it from and they said that it
didn't seem so the autostar but in the software built in.



Subject:	 Tracking
Sent:	Wednesday, March 3, 1999 12:28:30
From:	edbrentnall@mindspring.com (Ed Brentnall)
The tracking is based on the scope being level and pointed due north.
Until I became very precise with these, I too had tracking problems.
Also use Cyrus and a star from the northern sky. The wider the
seperation the better it tracks. I tracked several items for an hour or
more.
If all else fails go polar.
Ed Brentnall



Subject:	 Meade QC is horrible
Sent:	Tuesday, March 2, 1999 22:05:51
From:	roland@cobaltgroup.com (Liem Bahneman)
Well I have about had it with Meade's quality control on their ETX line
(new and old).

Yesterday, I purchased an AutoStar from the Nature Company. I brought it
home, plugged it in....nothing. I tried for an hour to get it to do
anything. In that time, it only powered up twice (seemingly normally),
each time locking up with garbage on the screen. I thought it might be
batteries, I checked them, they were fine, and the stock hand controller
worked fine.

So, I took it back and got a replacement that night, and it worked fine
(and continues to be ok).

That was just the first half of this saga.

Tonight, I received my new wedgepod from JMI (what wonderful piece of
craftsmanship!). I was testing the ETX+AutoStar in polar mode, when all
of a sudden the ETX stopped moving along the RA axis. It was locked down
tight, but it refused to move. Turning the telescope on its base yielded
a disturbing clunking and grinding. I removed the ETX from the wegdepod
and could hear the sound of a screw rattling around in the base. Great.
I opened the base and found a small set-screw had unscrewed itself from
one of the gears. I screwed it back in and found it would immediately
proceed to unscrew itself when I slewed the RA axis.

So, I called Natural Wonders where I purchased the telescope and they
are going to replace it for me.

So Meade, if you are listening, what the is up with your quality
control? My original ETX had the well-known teflon pad problem, which
had to be replaced. My new EC is dropping screws! I will not even get
into the intolerable documentation that came with the AutoStar. Now I
understand why Meade does not accept email. They would be inundated.

Needless to say, I am extremely dissapointed. My only consolation is
this winter is the rainiest in Seattle history, so I am not missing
anything yet.

- liem

============================================================================
Liem Bahneman	                                      roland@cobaltgroup.com
Senior Systems Administrator	  	  http://www.cobaltgroup.com/~roland
The Cobalt Group					 (206) 269-6363 x300
Seattle, Washington					F(206) 269-6350



Subject:	 Laptops
Sent:	Tuesday, March 2, 1999 19:09:25
From:	Dean@cwdi.com (Dean)
I am interested in getting a laptop computer for hooking up to my EC90. 
I have seen that a few people are making their own cables and hookups
and would like to look into this a little more.  My idea is to save alot
of leg work as I am running back and forth as I find something and
verifying it with my star map.  I would also like to look into CCD
photography in the near future.  Before I go out and buy just any good
laptop, I would like to here from some of the readers about their
experiences and 'if they had anything to do over again'.  What are any
other options, extras,etc, one should look into to go along with the
computer?

One more comment, I had wrote in earlier about  the unstable mount of
the EC90 on the field tripod.  Well, I fixed 99% of the problem by using
a 5 1/2" diameter piece of 1/8" steel, with the 2 mounting holes drilled
in, as a stabilizing plate.  The top casting of the tripod was not
completely flat so I 'milled' it perfectly flat.

Thanks again for the great page!
Dean.

P.S.  It is a shame that Mike does not have a new ETX for himself.  I
think  it would be fair if all us USERS of this fine, informative site,
would contribute $1 or 2.  Then Mike could have some of his own first
hand experiences to share with us.  Will Mike even print this?

Mike here: Many thanks for the thought but I must decline the offer. As to a new scope, we'll see what the future has to offer...



Subject:	 Re: ETX90/EC  -  Video Astrophotography
Sent:	Monday, March 1, 1999 23:55:39
From:	bigvern@jps.net (vern westervelt)
Since I've been playing with my ETX90-EC, tonight was the first night
I've actually had clear skies and actually started trying out the
Autostar. (I've been playing with my camera and the moon up until now).

I only tried in alt-az mode since I havn't received my ez-finder that is
on order...don't want to play with Polaris until I can easily align it. 
I used Sirius and Alanatak on the orion belt for my 2 alignment stars. 
No matter how precise I aligned them, the scope would not track
automatically back and forth after a successful alignment.  I was kind
of bummed about that.  It did put it close, but did a terrible job at
tracking in alt-az mode with anything greater than a 20mm objective. 
I'm going to write mead and see what they have to say about it.

Can't wait to get the ez-finder and try it in equatorial mode..

Thanks again.

Vern


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